1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,440 I heard in a swampy area in southeastern Michigan state, the object was called an airship and 2 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:17,120 was said to have an escort of four other airships, all of which are referred to as flying saucers. 3 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:22,240 People have been seeing them for years, but never with such certainty and agreement of 4 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:24,240 description. 5 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:29,640 Past sightings of such unidentified flying objects have been so numerous that the federal 6 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:37,320 government through the U.S. Air Force has established an inquiry group to look into such reports. 7 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:43,520 The civilian chief of this inquiry group is Dr. J. Allen Heineck, professor of astronomy 8 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,320 at Northwestern University. 9 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:51,320 One might say that he is the highest ranking and most informed person in the government 10 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:52,320 on the subject. 11 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:58,360 It is therefore a particular privilege for us to be able to speak with Dr. Heineck and 12 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,800 get the best possible answers to questions that are of interest to everyone. 13 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:09,200 Sir, in the most recent incident we understand that about 60 people claim to have seen the 14 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,320 same thing at the same time. 15 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:17,440 First would you describe what they say they saw and then tell us what you think it was. 16 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:23,560 Well, first of all, there, I cannot say that they all said they saw the same thing. 17 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:30,960 It is true that several small groups of people were fairly, in fact, quite consistent in 18 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:35,640 the description of what they saw. 19 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:42,960 And they, I would say they were very sincere and honest and were reporting to the rest 20 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:44,600 of their abilities. 21 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,080 Now, there were two primary cases. 22 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:56,480 Now, it is true that many sporadic and scattered reports came in from all over and I certainly 23 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,720 couldn't have taken the time to investigate all of those. 24 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:09,240 However, I concentrated my attention on the two best described events, those that had 25 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:16,760 the most observers and the most that had some residue or least common denominator, one might 26 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:17,760 say. 27 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,560 Well, now what were these? 28 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:29,120 Both instances, separated by some 60 miles, occurred in swamps. 29 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:36,880 I know because I trapped through that swamp for two hours and it was not very pleasant. 30 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:44,560 Now, first of all, it seemed to me that this could hardly be a coincidence that the lights 31 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:51,240 and let me remind you that all that was described with the exception of two people. 32 00:02:51,240 --> 00:03:00,640 The great majority of the people described only lights, a glow and rather small red, 33 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:03,200 yellow and green lights. 34 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:09,760 Now the fact that this occurred near a swamp or at a swamp in both cases, a great number 35 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:19,400 of observers were referring to those two events led me to follow that as a clue. 36 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,360 Now an astronomer doesn't usually worry about swamps. 37 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,720 His eyes are looking elsewhere generally. 38 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:38,760 But in his rapid and as thorough away as was possible in that time, I did notice, for instance, 39 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:46,760 that in Professor Minert's book, and Minert is an astronomer, he describes in his book 40 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:54,320 Light and Color in the Open Air, he describes lights of these colors, green, red and yellow 41 00:03:54,320 --> 00:04:01,240 and white, as dancing around swamp areas. 42 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:10,400 The will of the wisp, sometimes called Ignis Phatis and known by other names also, I believe 43 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,800 Foxfire is another name given to it. 44 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:25,800 At any rate, then in some chemistry books and in talks with various chemistry and zoology 45 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:33,840 and botany professors, I was told by them, and this is in their field, that it is quite 46 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:44,340 common for rotting vegetation underneath the ice in swampy areas during winter to develop 47 00:04:44,340 --> 00:04:52,800 a fair amount of marsh gas, which is methane, CH4, also Phosphine, pH 3. 48 00:04:52,800 --> 00:05:00,440 The Phosphine can, they tell me, spontaneously ignite. 49 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:08,440 After the, when a spring thaw comes and the gases can bubble up from below and get released, 50 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:15,800 the gases can ignite spontaneously and they flicker all over other places. 51 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,880 They'll flicker at one place and then go out and suddenly appear someplace else, which 52 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,880 gives the illusion of motion. 53 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:32,200 And this description fit quite well, the description that both the many coeds at the Hillsdale 54 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:42,000 College told me and also the policemen who were actually in the swamp and saw the lights 55 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,000 themselves. 56 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:54,000 None of the policemen, as far as the swamp experience is concerned, observed any object. 57 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,440 They observed lights, a glow. 58 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:00,680 And so there, there we are. 59 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,960 Maybe you would like to have asked more about that, but I think this sums up the thing, but 60 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:13,680 I'd like to emphasize here that this does not, in no sense of the word, by this particular 61 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,760 explanation which refers to these two specific cases. 62 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:26,920 Am I trying to give a blanket interpretation or a blanket solution to the entire UFO phenomenon? 63 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:32,640 In this particular case, Dr. Heineck, you mentioned that there were some coeds and policemen. 64 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,360 Does this make up the basic group of those who saw it? 65 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,600 Yes, it does. 66 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:47,800 There were no, with the exception of the Civil Defense Director in Hillsdale, I would say 67 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:53,280 there were no technically trained observers. 68 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:59,160 By this I do not mean that there were no intelligent observers. 69 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:09,960 The great majority were very intelligent observers, but not technically trained in the, as chemists 70 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,800 let's say, or as physicists. 71 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,440 For instance, wouldn't it have been nice had we gotten the spectrographic analysis of the 72 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:19,440 lights? 73 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,400 That would solve the problem immediately. 74 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,440 But these observers were not unintelligent people, obviously. 75 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,280 No, they definitely not. 76 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:35,800 They were, I can understand, and I sort of feel very sympathetic, particularly to Mr. 77 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:43,760 Manor, the farmer in question, whose land was quickly overrun by the curiosity seekers 78 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:51,080 and he was called all sorts of strange names like Martian and so forth. 79 00:07:51,480 --> 00:08:01,600 It is just too bad that mass hysteria can take over after a perfectly honest and sincere 80 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:02,600 sighting is reported. 81 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:09,120 I mean, at this point straight, these people that saw this weren't in any way excited about 82 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,400 it or hysterical about the fact. 83 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,160 They were seriously observing what they thought they saw. 84 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:16,840 That is absolutely correct. 85 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:22,960 Even the young ladies at the college, you would normally expect they might get hysterical 86 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:29,520 and rush around and say strange things, but according to all reports I had, and when I 87 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,480 talked to them myself, they were quite level-headed. 88 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:38,800 But the lights they saw were localized to the swamp area. 89 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:44,760 They were described as red and yellow and green. 90 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,640 They did not move very far from the general locale of the swamp. 91 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:56,760 Let me ask this, sir, why haven't these local residents seen this kind of gas before? 92 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,920 Well, that's a question I asked myself too. 93 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:05,080 I said, well, look, there are lots of swamps in Michigan and why, therefore, isn't this 94 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,640 a very common phenomenon? 95 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:22,200 Well, I think we must, if we pursue this explanation investigation, we must say that the particular 96 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,440 seasonal conditions were such as to produce it at this time. 97 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:34,080 That is, the winter was, I understand, in that area was unusually mild. 98 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:45,120 The thaw hat just occurred, and it could very well be that the swamp gas may funnel up in 99 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,800 certain places more than it does in others. 100 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:55,680 Although since this has happened, and even before the Air Force explanation was given, 101 00:09:55,680 --> 00:10:02,720 I've had numerous letters now from people in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, all saying before 102 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,680 these explanations were given, incidentally, that, well, this must be the explanation that 103 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:14,160 they as children in their past experience have seen lights of this sort quite frequently. 104 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,880 Lights of the sort that might have been swamp gases, is that it? 105 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,120 Well, definitely were, and in their cases, without question. 106 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:27,040 A lot of the people react to your findings after you told them what you thought you saw 107 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,160 there in regard to what they thought they saw. 108 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:36,520 One newspaper columnist in Chicago, Erf Cubs, that reports this morning that you seemed 109 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:41,640 to indicate they wanted to run you out of town because their sightings weren't valid. 110 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:52,840 Well, I said that facetiously, but I think there was a genuine disappointment that I 111 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:58,760 couldn't come out and say that this was unexplainable and that we probably were being visited by 112 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:06,400 space people because there is a tremendous will to believe why I was, I'm not a psychologist, 113 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:15,560 but as an armchair or a curb stone psychologist, it appears to me that we live in such frightening 114 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:26,440 times with so much war scare and the well, the times are unstable, you might say. 115 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:37,320 And with the space age dawning, having definitely dawned, of course, people would love, I think, 116 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,120 very dearly love to have some help come to us from the outside. 117 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:48,920 And it seems also that perhaps the old time religion isn't quite scientific enough for 118 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:56,560 many people and they would like to, I think, sort of latch on to the idea that our big 119 00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:00,560 brothers from outer space are coming in to help us out or something like that. 120 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:07,400 Do you believe, sir, that it's possible that since you understand outer space best, perhaps 121 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:14,840 you can answer this more valid, more valid answer than most people, and knowing outer space as you 122 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:20,480 do, what do you think are the chances that this planet of Earth might be visited by something 123 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:21,480 from another world? 124 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,800 I think there is a very clear answer to that. 125 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:35,680 Astronomers, the great majority of astronomers today would agree, I believe, that it is rather 126 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:42,360 cosmically provincial to feel that we would be the only or the highest intelligence in the 127 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:52,320 universe and that there are undoubtedly, perhaps even millions of other solar systems, which 128 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,520 does not necessarily mean that they have intelligent life. 129 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:02,120 But again, if there are millions of solar systems, why just ours to have life on it? 130 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:10,040 Well, I think here we must distinguish between two words possible and probable. 131 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:16,680 And very frequently, the public mixes up these two words. 132 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:24,240 I would say, and I think most of my colleagues would agree with me, that it is entirely possible 133 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:36,960 that we might in the past or present be visited by outside distance civilizations. 134 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,640 But it is highly improbable. 135 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,320 The difference between possible and probable, I think, must be emphasized here because the 136 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:56,040 distances are so, as far as we know, are so extremely vast that even if we could travel 137 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:03,040 with speed of light, it would still take a great many years to get here from, on our 138 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,880 timescale, that is, to get here from these places. 139 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,440 It would have to be some sort of a being that could transmit itself in other than a physical 140 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,080 form, that would have to travel at distance. 141 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:22,040 Well, that's a rather interesting concept, and certainly it's not in the field of physical 142 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,560 science as yet at any rate to consider that. 143 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:32,040 But I've been, see, I have investigated, or no, no, this is not right. 144 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:40,040 I have read, or in the past 18 years, what I've been, Air Force's consultant on this, 145 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:47,160 over 10,000 cases, and the great, great, great majority of these are easily explained, well, 146 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,640 what are the primary explanations? 147 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:56,640 Aircraft, balloons, meteors, stars, satellites. 148 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:05,640 In fact, people in general, even though sincere, are quite poor observers, and they, so that 149 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:12,640 in great, great majority of cases, a UFO, an unidentified flying object is merely a 150 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,840 usual thing seen under unusual circumstances. 151 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,680 But there are several hundred actually unexplained cases. 152 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,760 Now, why are they unexplained? 153 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,600 Perhaps because they were not sufficiently investigated. 154 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:35,600 On the other hand, there remains the possibility that any open-minded scientist must not close 155 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:42,640 mind to the possibility that there are things that we yet do not know about. 156 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:48,960 In the 18 years you've been studying this for the U.S. Air Force, how many have been 157 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,960 reported totally? 158 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:57,960 Well, over 10,000 have been reported just to the Air Force, and that is in this country. 159 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,720 Now, the Air Force does not, by any means, get all the reports. 160 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:09,720 There are many civilian groups who gather reports, and as was mentioned in the Valet's 161 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:18,240 book, for instance, the Anatomy of a Phenomenon, he pointed out and made a very good case and 162 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:25,600 showed that the UFO phenomenon was a global thing. 163 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:30,600 France, for instance, had a tremendous wave of sightings in 1954. 164 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:36,280 Still in Argentina this past year, France and England have had quite a few. 165 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:43,280 In fact, England, I believe, has, per square mile, more UFO sightings than we do. 166 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,480 And here we always thought, living in our little world around this Midwestern state, 167 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,080 that we only saw them in the United States. 168 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:57,080 Then this is a worldwide problem, and is there any kind of coordination that's achieved 169 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,000 with other countries in the subject? 170 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:00,840 Well, you bring up a good point, though. 171 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:07,840 I'm just wondering whether, I don't know whether to suggest this, to what degree of seriousness 172 00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:15,120 that I should suggest this, but since it is a global thing and could possibly affect 173 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:23,280 international relations, that I'm just wondering whether, 174 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:30,280 to say the United Nations or UNESCO or something, might set up a small commission to look into 175 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:37,680 this, I have already in my capacity as scientific consultant to the Air Force recommended some 176 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:44,680 time ago, quite a long time before this happened, this present sighting happened, that in those 177 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:52,680 competent scientists quietly study such cases when the evidence from responsible people 178 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,360 appears to warrant that study. 179 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:06,360 But I want to emphasize the study should be scientific, quiet, unpublicized, and, you 180 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,600 know, it was done in a dignified way without devoid of all the mass hysteria that comes 181 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:13,600 in with these things. 182 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,720 Have some of these kinds of investigations been carried out that we don't know about? 183 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:25,720 I have carried out a few, but there are a number of cases. 184 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:36,160 For instance, I honestly don't know what to think of the case reported in Cuernavaca, 185 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:42,760 Mexico last September. 186 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:49,200 Reputedly, I unfortunately couldn't get down there for one thing, the Air Force has no 187 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:55,520 jurisdiction in Mexico, but here is again a case of where this UN commission might look 188 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,200 into things like this. 189 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:04,200 There was a startling report made in Cuernavaca, which on the face of it, was a report that 190 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:13,040 seems extremely mysterious, but I want to emphasize on the face of it, if we dig down 191 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,640 and investigate it, it may turn out to be a perfectly normal, natural thing. 192 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,040 At the moment, I don't see how. 193 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:26,640 Going along your lines of thinking concerning a UN commission, it is true that in Congress, 194 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:31,960 among all the congressmen that are there, there are certainly a large group of skeptics, 195 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:37,960 and they seem to want to organize a congressional investigation of this latest incident. 196 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,560 What do you think about that? 197 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:47,560 Well, a scientist should always welcome an investigation if it's a scientific investigation. 198 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:56,640 I think it depends here on what is meant by a congressional investigation. 199 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:04,640 If competent witnesses are called in and the whole situation is studied scientifically 200 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:13,440 and given more time to it than I, as one person, could give to it, I would welcome such a thing. 201 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:19,000 Who do you think would give you your strongest arguments, by the way, for or against? 202 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:25,440 Either way, I think in favor of the reality of these things, who do you think would give 203 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,520 you your biggest argument? 204 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:35,520 Well, I think the people right in Michigan, the sheriff, Sheriff Harvey and the farmer, 205 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:44,680 Mr. Manor, and a number of people around there, there have been some reports, even after that, 206 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:45,680 I understand. 207 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,680 I think they would give, because they were sincerely puzzled. 208 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:57,680 I mean, I found in this no attempt at a hoax, at least I don't think so, so that people 209 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,200 say, well, I don't know what you say about this, but I know what I saw. 210 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,920 I believe what I see. 211 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,920 Well, but the human eye can be deceived. 212 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,680 I've even heard people, and I'm sure you remember these occasions, accuse you of being 213 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,680 in a kind of a collusion with the government in denying these things. 214 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:29,680 Well, this I can categorically deny, because the press release, for instance, of last Friday, 215 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,680 was written by me and only by me. 216 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:39,680 It's in my own handwriting, in my own style, and the Air Force gave me complete freedom 217 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,680 to say what I wished. 218 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,680 I have one more question, sir. 219 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:49,040 In your opinion, which of these incidents, thousands that have existed over the past 220 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,600 eighteen years you've been studying them, appear to be the most interesting, or which 221 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,680 seems to be the most valid to you? 222 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,680 Can you remember any one in particular? 223 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:05,440 I'd hate to pick one in particular, because somebody might say, well, I know that was 224 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:11,560 such and such and so forth, but let's see, offhand, there was the rather interesting 225 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,680 case in Homer, New York, which was unpublicized. 226 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:19,680 There was an interesting case, as I mentioned in Cuenavocca, Mexico. 227 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:27,560 There was a case in Bismarck, North Dakota, a number of years ago, one in Monticello, 228 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,560 Wisconsin, one where one could go on. 229 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,880 Well, what would be the most unexplainable factor in the incident that makes it interesting 230 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,880 to you? 231 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:45,240 Well, of course, the most interesting thing would be what is it that they really saw, 232 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:51,040 but apart from that, what bothers me is that there are generally so few witnesses. 233 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:57,480 Now, if a real supposed, for the moment, to re-conjecture, and I'm not saying this seriously, 234 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:03,160 but suppose that we were to conjecture and hypothesize that a spacecraft were visiting 235 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,840 us, then isn't it logical to suppose that A, our 236 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,720 marvelous surveillance systems would pick this up? 237 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:21,160 Secondly, if it's seen at point A, why is it not also seen on its way to point B? 238 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,200 If an airliner leaves O'Hare, Chicago, and on its way to San Francisco, you can track 239 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:27,200 its path. 240 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:32,080 You would see it in Omaha and Denver and Salt Lake City and so forth. 241 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:40,600 Whereas the thing that bothers me about some of these sightings is that suddenly an object 242 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:47,760 or a light or something, a sighting, is reported at location A, and then it just seems to go 243 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,680 up vertically, they say, and nobody sees it go away, really. 244 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:59,040 I think we have one very current example from the newspaper of March 28th, Chicago Sun 245 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:05,240 Times reports from a place called Bad Axe, again in the Midwest state of Michigan. 246 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:11,000 Pre-policemen in this little community in Michigan's thumb reported watching a bright 247 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:16,120 blue light over Lake Huron for about half an hour early Sunday. 248 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:23,240 Bad Axe policeman Peter Torres described the object as very large and moving too fast to 249 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,240 be a star. 250 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,120 I'd like to comment on things like that. 251 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:33,040 I have no reference to this particular policeman because I don't know him and he may be quite 252 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:39,320 competent and sincere, but more generally, here is a typical report that will come in 253 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,320 a typical statement. 254 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,160 I'll ask someone, what was the object moving? 255 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,880 Oh, it was moving very fast, very fast. 256 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,360 Well, how fast? 257 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:52,040 Well, I think 500 miles an hour or more. 258 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,440 Well, that's interesting. 259 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,200 How long did you see it? 260 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:56,200 About two hours. 261 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,400 Well, now what do you do with things like that? 262 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,400 There are so many contradictions and you have to throw contradictory evidence out. 263 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,800 You just can't try to give it credence. 264 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:12,400 And one policeman says that something is moving too fast to be a star. 265 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,880 Policeman knows a good deal about speed on the road, but we wonder if he knows about 266 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,880 the speed of star. 267 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,120 I would say that's a good point you make there. 268 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,240 Well, thank you very much, sir. 269 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,840 It's been a pleasure speaking to you. 270 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:31,280 We've been talking with Dr. J. Allen Hineck, professor of astronomy at Northwestern University 271 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:37,480 and chief civilian investigator for the U.S. Air Force on the subject of unidentified flying 272 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,480 objects. 273 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,680 This is John Schlimmer, The Voice of America, Chicago.